The problem with Scientology isn't their beliefs. Its how they pose a threat to governments and individuals, like when they tried to infiltrate the IRS to get some important members out of paying taxes, or like whenever they go after their critics, not with arguments (which they have every right to do), but with harassment and violence.

Which Bible are you referring to?

The King James version
The Living Bible
The New Revised Standard Edition
The New American Standard Edition
The Revised Standard Edition
The New Century Edition
or The New International Edition?

Those are just the seven most common versions. There are more. Perhaps THEIR 'Holy Book', aka their Bible, tells them different things than our Holy Book (Bible) does?

The second part refers to the practice of the Eucharist (Holy Communion) where many religions offer a piece of bread or cracker with a bit of wine or some other drink for someone's spiritual well being. I find very little difference between handing someone bread and adding to their spiritual well being and handing someone vitamins and claiming it helps their spiritual well being.

Every religion has it's own ceremonies and ideas, which if put on trial would have a difficult time 'proving' themselves. So who is next up on the witness stand? Are the French only going after Scientology or every religion? This makes them look great in the newspapers but what if YOUR religion was put under similar scrutiny, could it prove that it helped the spiritual well-being of it's members with it's ceremonies?

Wow!

I was wondering if you were actually going to say that the different translations all say different things, and you sure did.

I knew there were people out there that thought that, but I've never talked to anyone personally until know.

So...They actually sell Bibles that have 3 translations per page, side by side.

They all say the same thing, just with slightly different grammatical structure.

For instance, NASB is a word by word translation, where NLV is a thought by thought, The Message is more a concept-meant translation, but they all say the same thing, one is merely more poetic or easier to understand than the other...

So yeah, there's only one Bible, but several translations of it, just counting English.

Go here and see for yourself:



I suggest comparing the King James Version (oldest and hardest to understand) New Living (contemporary but quite professional) and the Message (very contemporary).

I promise you aren't going to find that one of the translation has a major (or minor...or any) difference in what it says.

Communion is also not mentioned in the Bible, and not required for salvation.

It is a tradition.

Great! You have an anecdote. How marvellous. Well I have an anecdote too. This relates to a man who is still my friend who was beaten and left by the roadside with the clearly stated threat that if he ever returned to Glasgow he would be killed. This was by Moonies (a term coined and employed by Sun Myung Moon to describe members of his cult so don't try and make out that there is an agenda in my usage of it).

So whilst it's lovely that this member of a brainwashing cult told you once over coffee that it was all quite nice and lovely, unfortunately that's not the case.


"Seem" becomes a pretty poignant word in light of what I just said, doesn't it?

Because they are violent, bigoted brainwashers? Do you know any more than your brief encounter with some people who seemed happy? Do you know, for example, that the teaching of this cult on the Holocaust is that it is divine retribution for the crucifixion of Christ. Yes, that's right - Moonies believe that all the Jews who died at the hands of the Nazis deserved it. Still feel like defending them?

Oh, and the irony of this will have you rolling in the aisles - Sun Myung Moon has, as I'm sure you know, served prison time for....

*drum roll....*

Fraud

Fax fraud, in this case, but it has a certain je ne sais quois... about it in this instance.

Because the carry out criminal acts. They have a tough time of it because they behave so badly themselves.


Well you presume wrongly. It becomes clear with each of your defences that the person who needs to take the time to properly learn about them is you. These are not innocent bodies who have never done a thing wrong in their existence. Scientology in particular are money grubbing extortionists who stop at nothing in pursuit of the shiny dollar.


It saddens me that you think so little of your fellow Plimates. There are some people here that I disagree with, sure, but on the whole they are well informed and more importantly aren't so scathing of the rest of us.

I think I'll not dignify this portion with a response, other than to say it does rather point out a certain hypocrisy in your stance.



Well no, you didn't. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked again.

OK, so that's your answer. And in this case Scientologists broke the law which is why they were brought to book.

No. The courts convicted the defendants of wilfully extorting the life savings of new recruits out of them. You do know that one of the plaintiffs in this case was cajoled into handing over €20,000, don't you? Does that seem right to you? Does that seem like something you want to defend?

Yes.

It doesn't fit your limited understanding so you abuse it? There's plenty of well written material out there if you choose to go looking. I presume your use of quote marks around the word anonymous refers to the body formed from 4Chan members who regularly turn up in person to protest against Scientology (not so anonymous or cowardly if you're there in the flesh, is it?) who chose the anonymous approach initially for fear of the violent retaliation from the objects of their protest - justifiable fear as this behaviour has been documented again and again.

And why is someone who knows about the inner workings to be discounted if they want to give testimony? Someone who knows what is happening can't now speak out? Why on earth would you want to gag someone for being a former member?

Most of the time, the opposite is actually true. Most critics of Scientology know far more about the questionable actions of the church than the members themselves.

You admit that you know nothing about Scientology, and you defend it blindly, accusing the other side of ignorance? Nice.

There's a wealth of material available from reliable sources on the web about the church of Scientology and it's activities, court documents and other. It's easy enough to check things out for yourself. To stand up and defend something blindly against people who obviously know more about the topic is absurd.

Actually it is "sell" present tense.
That may have been the only actual "buy salvation, half price" done by the Catholic church but many churches strongly imply - some more than imply that tithing is needed to be saved. The Catholic Church as a whole does not do this.

Interestingly the Mormon Church does require a member to tithe so there is a legal basis to attack them for false claims that failing to pay them will mean you won't be "saved".

I imagine part of the problem is proving the claim is false. Even with Scientology, you can prove that E-Meters don't work as advertised but you can't prove that Xenu didn't throw people into volcanoes.

Before you all start messing with the Catholic Church, you better remember that Jehovah commands a Zombie Army!

That's a metaphor just in case anyone was wondering.

I cannot wrap my brain around people who would defend Scientology. It is a dangerous cult, not a religion. Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

For what?

It makes me laugh how all the parts of the bible that are really] off the hook, like LaLa mental, are "metaphorical" according to Christians lol.

Greek mythology is just that but when the bible comes up with the same fairytales it's serious metaphor?

I don't think you'll find anyone arguing with you there.

Now we just need to widen your scope a little...

Ha....But reading as you would read any book you can see that's it a metaphor. It is a vision, a dream.

The only place in Scripture where people routinely try to figure what's literal and what's metaphorical is Revelations, which is purely prophetic and not particularly applicable to everyday life anyways...

But it's also true that some crazy parts of the Bible straight up are not metaphors...

It first helps to use just a more modern translation, not too many people use "thee" in daily parlance anymore...

Read again, paying close attention to the bolded section:

1 The Lord took hold of me, and I was carried away by the Spirit of the Lord to a valley filled with bones. 2 He led me all around among the bones that covered the valley floor. They were scattered everywhere across the ground and were completely dried out. 3 Then he asked me, “Son of man, can these bones become living people again?”

“O Sovereign Lord,” I replied, “you alone know the answer to that.”

4 Then he said to me, “Speak a prophetic message to these bones and say, ‘Dry bones, listen to the word of the Lord! 5 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Look! I am going to put breath into you and make you live again! 6 I will put flesh and muscles on you and cover you with skin. I will put breath into you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the Lord.’”

7 So I spoke this message, just as he told me. Suddenly as I spoke, there was a rattling noise all across the valley. The bones of each body came together and attached themselves as complete skeletons. 8 Then as I watched, muscles and flesh formed over the bones. Then skin formed to cover their bodies, but they still had no breath in them.

9 Then he said to me, “Speak a prophetic message to the winds, son of man. Speak a prophetic message and say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Come, O breath, from the four winds! Breathe into these dead bodies so they may live again.’”

10 So I spoke the message as he commanded me, and breath came into their bodies. They all came to life and stood up on their feet—a great army.

11 Then he said to me, “Son of man, these bones represent the people of Israel. They are saying, ‘We have become old, dry bones—all hope is gone. Our nation is finished.’ 12 Therefore, prophesy to them and say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: O my people, I will open your graves of exile and cause you to rise again. Then I will bring you back to the land of Israel. 13 When this happens, O my people, you will know that I am the Lord. 14 I will put my Spirit in you, and you will live again and return home to your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken, and I have done what I said. Yes, the Lord has spoken!’”

Ezekiel 37:1-14 (New Living Translation)


And if you want more context, know that this was written when Ezekiel and his fellow Israelites were in exile in Babylon as Jerusalem was falling. This book actually contains very precise dates as well (more than any other OT book actually), and other archaeological evidence (Babylonian cuneiform and astronomy) gives us more clues as to when all this occurred.

20 years pass in this book, starting on July 31, 593 BC, and ending on 28 April, 573 BC.