They didn't send me to Catholic School because they thought it would 'save my soul'. It is a cultural thing... I am sure the nuns took it upon themselves so that my parents get a little extra bang for their buck...

But they sent me there for the education. Private schools sometimes have the best education, especially in so-called '3rd world countries'

Then your comment about needing a 'refund' for not getting 'salvation' is moot; not in the contract.

It was there since I wrote it.

As stated by Lynxie, most churches run on donations. Even the ridiculously large ones (their use of those donations is another issue altogether).

The e-meter measures the bodies resistance to a current. Scientology claims that this can be used to measure a persons well being in this world. If this is false, then Scientology is fraudulent.

Other religions don't usually mess with concepts of well being in this world. Since they don't really make any testable claims, they cannot go on trial for fraud.

Plus its kind of a compulsion for Scientologists, whereas in other religions, its more optional. Its prefered that they give money, but if they don't, then you aren't going to become an 'enemy'.

I think what I was trying to get to when I made my initial comment that it's similar to Christianity, wasn't so much that Christianity MAKES you pay money (although it certainly implies that you should). My initial point was making a comparison of the Scientology judgement and Christianity in so far as they both make claims that there is something wrong with you and that they have the solution to your problems.

So does the whole self-help industry *shrug*. But they (and scientologists) require you to buy their product.

People don't put money in the collection plate to avoid hell, people put money in the collection plate to help pay some of the costs accrued by the church. People put money in the collection plate to buy a new roof or a new steeple, not to buy their way into heaven. I know people who tithe religiously (no pun intended) and will actually send a check to the church on the sundays that they don't show up. And these people who do that aren't doing it to save their eternal souls, but to help pay for some of the services their church provides.

So, did you get a good education. If you did, then your parents shouldn't get a refund.

I attended private school (Lutheran not Catholic) for kindergarten through 2nd grade. When I entered public school in the 3rd grade they tried to skip me to the 4th because I was so far ahead of my peers. I read on a high school reading level and was doing long division while the rest of the kids in my class were still working on subtraction. Luckily, I had enough one on one time with my teachers to stay interested in school while everyone else caught up. Didn't skip any grades because my mom wanted me to be around kids my own age, seeing as I turned out ok, I can't blame her for her choice.

For those of the congregation that do not know how the money 'donated' is used; they most certainly think that by giving money to the church, because the church does portray itself as an institution 'less fortunate than others' for its non-profit status, then that plays on the sympathies of those who give money by believing they are helping the 'less fortunate' thus are going to heaven and avoiding hell...

Those people are out there...

As far as seminary doctrine, no... education in general, neither...

It wasn't until I went to another school that I saw how lacking that catholic school education was, sadly.

That sucks, but then again, it was Catholic school after all.*wink*Maybe if you had gone to LUTHERAN school you would have received a better education.

Really other than Wednesday morning bible class in the church (which was only 1 hour long) we didn't concentrate that much on seminary doctrine. Mostly we worked on spelling and reading and math and science.

Every time Scientology crops up you're there to defend them.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that you only do this because you don't understand what they are. Your comments certainly seem to betray a lack of understanding.

Let me clarify this one for you.

Scientologists, you may or may not know, have their own terminology which in part creates a boundary between them and non-cult members and in part disguises their nefarious activities.

One such term is Suppressive Person. Declaring someone an SP is a euphemism for kicking them out of the organisation.

The process of moving someone from a fully paid up member to an SP is called Enforced Disconnection.

Now do you suppose that they have these terms just in case the eventuality ever crops up, or because it happens often enough that they need to call it something?

Any church found engaging in politics is ruthlessly stripped of it's 501(c)3.

I've seen it happen. Even mentioning candidate names can cause serious trouble.

And again, no one requires 10% of your wages. You can go to any church and not give money. I just did last week.

And what does the Vatican have to do with anything? It isn't in the US or subject to it's laws.

You do know there are many Christians who don't go to church at all right?

There's definitely nothing in the Bible that says, "The free gift of salvation wrought by Jesus dying on the cross requires a small transaction fee...And some vitamins."

I have to agree that many people believe that acting good enough and giving enough money will get them to heaven, which essentially is what Mormonism says...not that blatantly, but it is very "good works" based.

But what's the harm in them giving money for that (besides that they should know it doesn't lead to salvation)?

Pretty much any church is gonna do something positive with it. You'd be hard pressed to find a church with 0 community outreaches or missions.

If you do, chances are it's not going to be around much longer.

It's a part of me that I grew up with and has stayed very much a part of me. My parents were Mormons. I've heard all about how they are polygamists (LDS are not polygamists btw.) I've heard about the hundreds of misconceptions that people have because they heard from a 'friend of a friend' who knew somebody who heard that we throw virgins off the top of the temple.

I know about the people who claim that the church founder was a con man. They refer to him as 'Joe Smith' to somehow diminish who he was making him sound like an 'Average Joe' instead of using his name, Joseph Smith.

When I see someone declaring that someone else is a cult I remember how others called Mormons a cult. When I see someone talking about how 'such and such' a member quit I remember how things like exmormon.com was started.

I see the same hate and bigotry against Scientologists as I do for a group like the Mormons that is simply trying to live cleanly and do good.

I am not a Mormon. I don't go to church, I don't pay tithing (never did) I dodge the Missionaries like everyone else does. I will defend them to my deathbed because I KNOW what they stand for. I've seen it firsthand. I've watched a group of twenty guys boat out to an island to chop wood for a woman who wasn't able to herself, notbecause she was a member or because they were trying to convert her, they just saw a person in need.

Scientology may be wrong, I don't have all the answers either though. I defend them because so many closed minded people attack what they don't even bother to try to understand.

I don't buy into it. I've seen people get bashed before by bigots and bullies. I guess although I can't even begin to compare Mormons and Scientologists in their beliefs and works that I can see the similarities in how they are persecuted by atheists, catholics and so-called-Christians for being different.

I don't believe in Scientology. I don't believe in the attack on any group based on their faith either. I'll defend Buddists and Baptists when they are set upon by Atheists and Agnostics. Someone's faith is just that, it's THEIRS. Noone has the right to tell someone how they are allowed to believe or denounce them as frauds. Judge or no judge.

Nope, no where in OUR Bible says that at all. Not everyone has the same bible though.

Perhaps if they would have just given them soda crackers and called it a donation they would have been off the hook right?

You left Moonies off your list - going to defend them too?

Just because the Mormons had a rough trot of it doesn't mean that all groups called Cults are not. You can't base defending one group on the mistreatment of others - that makes no sense.

And your presumptions are the very closed mindedness you claim to rail against.

My previous reply in and of itself should tell you that I do have and understanding of Scientology and yet you are talking of a lack of understanding.

To return to my original question and your last paragraph, are you claiming that, because Scientology claims to be a religion they should be above the law?

None of those religions tried to infiltrate the IRS, and none of them harass/kill their 'enemies' like the Scientologists do.

There's only one Bible...A Bible that's been changed to require monetary donation for salvation would result in a cult...

I don't get the second part.

I had a Korean friend who married a French gentlemen through the Unification church (referred to as the Moonies) who was quite happy with her two children. As odd as their ways seem to us, they work for them and the Moonies didn't seem to be hurting others with their beliefs... why aren't they worthy of our defense?

And why DO they have a tough time of things? Why does any church need to 'defend itself' to nonbelievers and why can they simply not exist alongside all the other world religions which believe differently.

My presumption is that Scientology (and all the other 'cult' religions) are often attacked by people who don't take the time to properly learn about them. My presumption is that a vast majority of the people on Plime would LOVE to bash this group for their beliefs without having to bother with understanding those beliefs. Oooh they give out little pills and measure the spiritual well being, what a fraud! Now let me take my communion in peace while the Priest tells me to confess my sins and give 10 Hail Marys.

I answered your question before. I believe a church should be held responsible for breaking the law but I don't believe that a church should have to defend it's spiritual beliefs. They claim to be able to help someone's spiritual well-being. The judges denounced them as frauds for doing so. Shouldn't Every church which claims to be able to affect your spiritual well being be put on trial? Or just the churches which people choose to attack because of rag-journalism, 'anonymous' cowards and Ex-member testimony?